The un-studio, studio drummers...

[matricks]

I was just listening to the radio at work, and heard a song by Gavin DeGraw and was wondering who the drummer was. The drummer had a sound that sounded like it almost could have been an actual member of the singer's band... had the edge that i don't usually attribute to a studio guy; louder ghost-note press buzzes into the '1', fills had a more live feel... the whole track sounded more 'live' than i would attribute to a singer of that genre. Anyways, turns out it was Joey Waronker.

Little did i know that when i looked Joey up, he has been credited on over 80+ albums. I was familiar with his work with Beck and REM but he has been on albums not only by Beck and REM but also the likes of Chris Botti, to Johnny Cash, Tracy Chapman, Nelly Furtado, Smashing Pumpkins, etc.

That led me to think, the reason he is probably getting this wide variety of work is that he doesn't really sound, in my opinion, like what i would think a studio guy sounds like. It reminded me of an article where Curt Bisquera mentioned how he spent so much time trying to be a polished studio musician, only to have people tell him to play 'less perfect'.

Besides Joey, what players would you say have that quality, sounding like a non-studio, studio drummer? I, of course, am a big Matt Chamberlain fan, but besides those two guys, who would you say has that same quality of being able to pull that sound off?

I think it is very refreshing to hear that sound, studio playing with a more 'live' feel and edge, especially when the person you are backing up isn't a polished studio person, it would seem to fit the musical situation even better.

Any thoughts?

[Groovemeister]

Matricks,

What a great thread!! I have been in this boat too.

I have done some replacement sessions before to replace band drummers that put their 'studio drummer' hats on when they come into the studio. Their approach really changes and they become a different plaer when "THE NERVOUS LIGHT" comes on. Even when going in to replace them I struggle against years of practise I've spent on getting as clean as I can.

I myself always have to make a concerted effort when playing with rock bands to make my playing less precise and play with a 'looser' feel.

I think to some extent, 'good' solid playing has no place in some rock music. Look at The Who... Can you imagine those parts played with precision rather than sheer attitude? With solid time instead of emotion? No way mate, it just wouldn't work...

MP

[matricks]

Amen, Amen! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I know exactly what you mean. I have been rehearsing for a gig that i have just received and i am coming across exactly what you are talking about. They, on some tunes, want me to incorperate V-Drums into the grooves, to give them a real-time, live, drum loop feel... the songs certainly call for it. However, on some of the other tunes, they have a very, raw 'as is' feel to them. I have spent A LOT of time on their 'drum machine' type-feel songs, getting everything tight, totally in the pocket... so much so, in fact, that i could probably play the songs in my sleep. However, for the tunes that call for more edge, i find that i have to remind myself to NOT practice these tunes more than a few times... i chart them, play them a few times to check and see if there are any major problems, and then LEAVE IT ALONE! The tunes call for more energy and a lively feel, therefore if i rehearse them to death, they get TOO polished and end up sounding sterile. When play them 'as is' and kind of play them with that nervous energy that comes with the 'i hope i don't mess this one up!' feeling, it adds more to the tune than could be added if i played it through 80 times in my basement.

When i hear that energy captured on a song by a 'studio cat', that is all the more cool because they bring that energy into an already sterile environment, and lay it down on track, and inject something into the songs that could very well be lacking, but yet still be regarded as 'correct' even if it WERE lacking. When they end up playing it 'correct', but then add a little bit of human energy to the track... that is when i hear it and get that 'special feeling', hehe [img]wink.gif[/img]

Being able to go into the studio and having the control to be able to strike that perfect balance, that is wonderful and i hope i can reach that level someday.

I think to some extent, 'good' solid playing has no place in some rock music. Look at The Who... Can you imagine those parts played with precision rather than sheer attitude? With solid time instead of emotion? No way mate, it just wouldn't work...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...indeed [img]wink.gif[/img]

[whagen]

I would think that there are numerous drummers out there that can lay down a great studio track based on musical emotion instead of technical ability.
Producers and engineers these days just have too much (pro)tools to make a not so perfect drumtrack perfect these days.

[Groovemeister]

Man, you get me wrong...

I'm not saying that it's a case of no feel and all technical ability, I'm saying, the technical ability becomes hard to shake off when looking for a 'loose' drum track - especially after practising it for so long!!!! [img]wink.gif[/img]

MP

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ March 13, 2005 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Groovemeister ]</font>

[matricks]

... er, um... anyone say Mutt Lange... [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

[PocketPlayer]

Originally posted by Groovemeister:
Man, you get me wrong...

I'm not saying that it's a case of no feel and all technical ability, I'm saying, the technical ability becomes hard to shake off when looking for a 'loose' drum track - especially after practising it for so long!!!! [img]wink.gif[/img] [/size][/color]

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I hear ya GMeister. What might be a simple track, say, Back in Black, could conceivably be a totally different tune if the approach to the hats were different. Each genre of music has a "feel" that makes one track more legitimate than another. Of course this is speculative, but the "art" of the craft makes evaluation either/ or.

[FlamTriplet]

Anyone see the movie Cotton Candy, the 70's movie that Ron Howard does not include on his resume?

If you listen to the guitar solos from the band Rapid Fire---man, they are so professionally bad. It's so funny hearing a professional trying to play bad. You'd know what I'm talking about if you've seen this movie.

[matricks]

There's a movie called Crossroads (not the Britney Spears one) where Ralph Macchio (yeah, the Karate Kid) plays a guitarist who does a bunch of stuff (whatever it was, i forget) but ends up having to play guitar against the Devil's right-hand man (to save his friend's soul). The Devil's right hand man, who happens to play guitar is played by Steve Vai... yeah [img]tongue.gif[/img]

All the guitar parts that were played by Ralph Macchio and everyone else in the whole movie were recorded by Vai and the crazy thing is when you listen to the parts, from blues, to folk, to rock, to shred... you would NEVER think it is Vai, he sounds like he is really different people. You hear someone playing some sloppy blues, and never in a million years would you think that it is actually Vai in the studio doing that part. It truly is crazy to hear how well he can play, well, how well he can play great and how well he can play bad. At the end of the movie there is a dual between the main character and the Devil's guitarist (played in the movie by Vai himself) and with Vai actually recording both parts... you would never think that it is the same person, he can sound so different than himself it is CRAZY.

It is just funny to see a movie were one person does all the guitar parts, and can pull off sounding like a blues guitarist sitting on the corner, noodling his axe, all the way to a neo-shredder. Kinda relates to being able to 'unlearn' that slick way of playing and trying to play 'less perfect'... harder than it seems [img]wink.gif[/img]

[Don Worth]

I think Ry Cooder did the slide parts in the movie. I played with Terry Evans and he is playing piano in the movie and I think he said Ry did the slide parts.